Aurubis AG Q4 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

The following is excerpted from the question-and-answer section of the transcript.

Question: Bastian Synagowitz - Deutsche Bank AG - Analyst : Yeah, hi and good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. I will start off on your project again. And my first question is basically just on the growth projects, which you have been moving from your CapEx agenda for '26 and '27, where I saw at least CapEx load for the growth part has been coming down. And then maybe also related to that, what has been driving the increase by the base of the baseline CapEx by EUR50 million? Those are my first questions.

Question: Bastian Synagowitz - Deutsche Bank AG - Analyst : Okay. So there's not one big item which you removed away even though the overall absolute amount of growth CapEx has come down a lot. It's fairly shifted out.

Question: Bastian Synagowitz - Deutsche Bank AG - Analyst : Okay. Understood. Then my last question is on the start-up losses and also the phasing of the contribution. So with regard to the, I guess, EUR50 million start-up losses, which you've been highlighting and you've been including in your guidance, how shall we be thinking about the phasing of this? Will this be very upfront loaded in 2024, '25? And then we can already expect like a net contribution in the last quarter? Or should we be those -- should we expect those start-up losses to drag on and potentially also continue to see some even in the course of the next financial year? REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. DECEMBER 05, 2024 / 1:00PM, NAFG.DE - Q4 2024 Aurubis AG Earnings Call

Question: Bastian Synagowitz - Deutsche Bank AG - Analyst : And then -- and I know it's early, obviously, to think about the next fiscal year, you just guided for the upcoming one, but is there still going to be more start-up losses which are going to drag into the following fiscal year? Or do you already expect a net contribution from your growth agenda?

Question: Bastian Synagowitz - Deutsche Bank AG - Analyst : Okay. Understood. Thanks so much And I'll move back into the queue.

Question: Christian Obst - Baader Helvea Equity Research - Analyst : First, I have a question concerning the Buffalo intake, if I got it right from your report. The EBT contribution was 32% as a cash flow contribution [EUR97 million]. So does that mean that the entire free cash flow for the year was minus EUR400 million approximately. Is that the right assumption?

Question: Christian Obst - Baader Helvea Equity Research - Analyst : Okay. Thank you. And then when it comes to legal and consulting, so these were more or less one-off costs for all the theft and fraud issues. Can you give us a number how much that was in the last fiscal year?

Question: Christian Obst - Baader Helvea Equity Research - Analyst : So going back to the cash flow and free cash flow. So when we start with this minus EUR400 million into the new year, is there some statement where you put some kind of a buffer because of the uncertainty when it comes to TC/RCs and so on and so forth that we can expect some more of a free of cash flow generation from working capital in the year to come?

Question: Christian Obst - Baader Helvea Equity Research - Analyst : Okay. And then a question concerning battery recycling, of course, you were currently in an ongoing testing phase, let's put it that way. But the other frame for EVs, especially in Europe, it's a little bit like luster of course. We see the insolvency from [ROCE well] also. Does this framework change anything in your plans you have with battery recycling?

Question: Christian Obst - Baader Helvea Equity Research - Analyst : Are you in closer talks with any kind of possible joint venture partners or other partners?

Question: Christian Obst - Baader Helvea Equity Research - Analyst : Okay. Understood. Thank you very much. All the best for your start.

Question: Maxime Kogge - ODDO BHF Securities - Analyst : Good afternoon. So coming back on Bastian's question on the contribution from new projects this fiscal year. Previous management had guided for EUR100 million approximately of contribution. But it seems in your comments that you are only targeting minimal contribution. And on top of that, there will be EUR50 million of ramp-up costs. So how do we reconcile the two statements? And what is driving this big decrease there?

Question: Maxime Kogge - ODDO BHF Securities - Analyst : Okay. No, that's fair. And yeah, regarding the guidance, two months have passed since you issued it, so in September -- end of September. Usually, when setting the guidance, you target the midrange. And now two months later, we've seen metal prices coming down, especially copper. I think the rest of the drivers are relatively stable. So are you still targeting the midpoint of the guidance at this stage?

Question: Maxime Kogge - ODDO BHF Securities - Analyst : Okay. And just last follow-up on this one, yes, the previous management used to give some indications on the energy costs. This year, I think they were relatively flat on last year EBITDA actually. I also see your comments in the German press fretting about the higher network shortly. So what are your assumptions there? Can we go for some stability again this year? Or should we expect an increase?

Question: Maxime Kogge - ODDO BHF Securities - Analyst : Okay. Many thanks.

Question: Cornelis Kik - Hauck Aufhaeuser Investment Banking - Analyst : Yeah, hi. Thank you for taking my question. I was just wondering whether you could maybe discuss the scenarios you see for the TC/RC benchmark. When do you expect the TC/RC benchmark to be set actually? And maybe you could discuss the case whether there would be a possibility that there's no benchmark set. And because in the past years, we've typically seen the benchmark set, I think, end of November, maybe October even. And then also, if you could maybe quantify the one-offs. I know you shed some light on the consultancy fees, but also maybe for outgoing management, the payments there, that would be very nice. Thank you.

Question: Cornelis Kik - Hauck Aufhaeuser Investment Banking - Analyst : Yeah, I was asking about the overall quantification of the one-off. So you obviously discussed the consultancy fees range of EUR15 million, but maybe you could quantify the other one-offs that impacted this fiscal year, so including outgoing management compensation.

Question: Cornelis Kik - Hauck Aufhaeuser Investment Banking - Analyst : All right. Thank you.

Question: Jason Fairclough - BofA Global Research - Analyst : Yeah, thank you very much. I just wanted to double check on the whole sort of TC/RC flow-through thing. So you've given guidance for next year. Are you able to share with us the assumed TC/RCs that feed into that guidance?

Question: Jason Fairclough - BofA Global Research - Analyst : Just to follow up, if I could. You said that you're covered for concentrates for the first half of the year. How do you think about giving guidance for the full year when you still haven't contracted your concentrate for the second half of the year?

Question: Jason Fairclough - BofA Global Research - Analyst : Okay. Steffen, thanks for the color. Look, just something breaking on the wires right now. So we've just had an announcement on benchmark copper processing fees. So this is apparently between Antofagasta and Jiangxi Copper, and they've signed at [$0.2125 and $0.02125] per pound. So I guess basis that as a benchmark, how does that make you think about your full year guidance?

Question: Jason Fairclough - BofA Global Research - Analyst : Okay. Alright. Thanks. I appreciate the color guys.

Question: Bastian Synagowitz - Deutsche Bank AG - Analyst : Yeah, thanks for taking my follow up. I just wanted to come back on your CapEx profile and also the earnings contribution part of your growth, and apologies for that. So just having done the math, I think you've been removing about EUR400 million of growth CapEx from, I think your -- I think, planning for the next four years. But then you still say that you aim to hit the EUR260 million earnings contribution over the next three to four years, which obviously I do struggle to reconcile. So could you just help us to solve that equation, i.e., like how can you still hit the EUR260 million, if you're spending EUR400 million less on growth versus what you were indicating before?

Question: Bastian Synagowitz - Deutsche Bank AG - Analyst : Okay. So basically, part of what you optimized maybe were the sort of non-profit-yielding projects. And then I guess you probably also had a bit of a profit buffer in your assumptions, I suppose.

Question: Bastian Synagowitz - Deutsche Bank AG - Analyst : Okay. Thank you.