Galp Energia SGPS SA Q1 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

The following is excerpted from the question-and-answer section of the transcript.

Question: Joshua Stone - UBS - Analyst : Congratulations on your appointment as co-CEO of Galp. Two questions, please. Firstly, I appreciate the extra comments on the Namibia farm down process and the time line on that. Maybe just expand a little bit on the competitiveness of the process so far. How many bidders or potential bidders have you got in the data room? And have you actually received any revised bid yet and how you see that going? REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. APRIL 28, 2025 / 10:00AM, GALP.LS - Q1 2025 Galp Energia SGPS SA Earnings Call And maybe just expand a little bit on how you weigh up the process in terms of getting a partner in now versus the risk of leaving money on the table by transacting too early? And just maybe expand a little bit on that, that would be helpful. And then second comments on guidance. You've refrained from updating your financial guidance today, which I think seems sensible given the uncertainty in the market. Maybe you could just talk a little bit how given the recent downturn, how you're thinking about capital priorities inside the business and the level of flexibility in your financial frame if you have, if it was needed to be tapped into. Maria Joao Carioca - Galp Energia SGPS SA - Co-Chief Executive Officer, Chief Financial Officer, Vice-Chairman of the Board of Directors So let me start with Namibia. On the process so far, I've just mentioned that partnership is a natural and preferred next step. So what we're doing is, to a very large extent, reengaging with the interested parties that we've had conversations before. And that has been our priority. Again, a set of potential partners that tick the boxes, if I may say so in terms of their experience, their potential role as an operator, their manifested interests and their availability towards exploring the asset at the right base. So data is now being shared. We're going to -- we expect to be sharing data at until mid-summer. Our priority is ensuring the alignment of interest. So that's what we are going for. So making sure that we get a fair valuation, and we have a good understanding of the asset to make sure that we align interest. We don't really have a firm timeline here. We -- again, I think, the expression of no procrastination is clear to us at this stage. But it's also clear to us that maintaining the right exchange in terms of information as we are ourselves still analyzing is going to be critical for the deal to be a value-accretive one. So no from timeline. Base expectation is on Q4, no procrastination. All in all, this is an asset that we like. We are maintaining our risk appetite and our exposure, but we expect that the deal will be completed as soon as possible, but very much looking forward to making sure that it is a value-accretive one for both parties. Now on your second question on our unchanged guidance, if I take it correctly. We have a rather resilient base case. So in light of how hard it is currently to call on the macro and taking into consideration the fact that we look at our core businesses in Upstream, for instance, we have a cash breakeven of approximately $20 per barrel. So even though we registered the current uncertainties on the macro, what we're seeing is the resilience of our base case, put together with the fact that -- as we've also mentioned, we've had the first cargo from Venture Global coming in. So that gives us a little bit of an upside but all in all, we're putting the two effects together. We feel that now is not the moment to revise our guidance. So we've already looked into our CapEx. You've seen the numbers of our revised guidance for this year. This is already 20% down from what was the case in the previous period. We're maintaining our disciplined approach. We do see just a bit of room to further optimize CapEx should it be needed. But at this stage, fundamentally, we are holding off to see to what extent the current volatility actually is brought down, and we see clear roads ahead. We think we have the right balance sheet and the right resilience to withstand what's ahead of us without having to move the guidance right now.

Question: Alessandro Pozzi - Mediobanca - Analyst : The first one is on the farm-out process. I was wondering whether there is any development work that is being done in the background and what I mean by that is, maybe purchasing long-lead items or prebooking construction vessels or space in yards for potential FPSO work whether there's any of that potentially that is ongoing. And also on the farm-out, I was wondering, you mentioned the seismic, the 3D seismic will probably take a year to be fully integrated. I was wondering whether that could be an important milestone for the farmout or whether any potential buyer. We want to wait for that before putting a firm bid on the table. Maria Joao Carioca - Galp Energia SGPS SA - Co-Chief Executive Officer, Chief Financial Officer, Vice-Chairman of the Board of Directors So I think these are two questions that go hand in hand, let me try and take them out. So on the what the type of work we're doing right now, I think we've been very clear that we've conducted our drilling, our exploration in a very fast pace. So those were five wells in a little over a year. And that, of course, now requires that we catch up and that we actually drive the data that we are still getting out of that drilling activity into our models and into our understanding of the asset. So even though, again, the partnership is the natural way forward, but that requires the ability for us to conduct a productive dialogue with the potential partners. So our focus right now is very much so on getting through all of this data, making sure that we bring it forth into what could be a proposed development concept. We've proved that the best way forward for Galp is to have a positive view, our own view on the assets, and that's what we want to be sharing. That requires that we look at this data. So we're both analyzing it and sharing it with potential partners, and that is very much the focus of our work so far. So we keep a little bit of an eye out on the market. So having had an operator stands in the previous stage, has proved value accretive for Galp. So we are indeed keeping our teams attentive to the market. But our focus right now, again, to be very clear, is to make sure that we bring all that data into what is the natural way ahead for the assets, and that is a negotiation with a potential partnership. The seismic is one of those data points. But again, let me be clear, that is not going to be a roadblock that is not in the way of our conversations. Information is valued. It will be brought in. It will be incorporated into the models and into a potential development concept, but it does not stand as a roadblock as of now.

Question: Biraj Borkhataria - Royal Bank of Canada - Analyst : The first one is on the midstream. You had another really strong performance in Q1. It looks like you quite heavily derisked the full year guidance already. And you mentioned in your prepared remarks around the Venture Global volumes not being reflected in guidance. So I just wanted a little bit of help in terms of the materiality of these volumes. If you were to assume spot prices or forward curve, should the run rate for the midstream be more like EUR600 million EBITDA. Is that in the right ballpark? Any color on that would be helpful. And then secondly, just going back to Namibia, firstly, thank you for all the incremental color. That's very helpful. Just wanted to get a sense of the magnitude of the spending this year. I think last year, CapEx to Namibia was just over EUR300 million. I suppose if you're pausing the campaign from here, what is the -- what's embedded in the budget for this year? Some color around that would be helpful, too. Joao Diogo da Silva - Galp Energia SGPS SA - Co-Chief Executive Officer, Executive Vice President - Commercial, Director On your first question, so we are clearly expecting a continued robust contribution with separative performance from our activities all across all the commodities. Surely, it is a key milestone bringing Venture Global. We are confident that the current sourcing and supply portfolio will continue to enable a robust contribution to Galp results. You know that well, and Galp's first cargo was lifted on April 15. However, no volumes from Venture Global were assumed in the 2025 guidance. So we are, at this point, keeping our 2025 EBITDA guidance above EUR350 million, and that's all for now. Maria Joao Carioca - Galp Energia SGPS SA - Co-Chief Executive Officer, Chief Financial Officer, Vice-Chairman of the Board of Directors I'll take that. Let me take the question on the Namibia. Biraj, I believe you're looking for how much we have in our plan for 2025 concerning further CapEx in Namibia. We have around EUR100 million to EUR155 million that concerned both the well and the seismic. So no further major CapEx spend expected there. So all in all, the number you are looking for is in the EUR100 million -- a bit over EUR100 million EUR150 million in our projections for '25.

Question: Giacomo Romeo - Jefferies International - Analyst : Two questions for me. The first one is on -- again, on the farm-out process, apologies for that. The no procrastination is also to be addition of the Namibian government. So I was wondering what's the alternative route if you don't get the offers to the level valuation you're actually think Mopane deserves. Would you consider progressing into taking FID on the first unit on your own? Second question is, there has been a lot of discussion around the contingent resources you disclosed for Namibia in your annual report. Obviously, I understand this number doesn't include the majority of the latest -- the data collected on the latest drilling campaign. And where would your REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. APRIL 28, 2025 / 10:00AM, GALP.LS - Q1 2025 Galp Energia SGPS SA Earnings Call number going if all the wells, all the incremental wells were included in this? And on this, are you still confident in your above 10 billion BOE in place resource estimate? Maria Joao Carioca - Galp Energia SGPS SA - Co-Chief Executive Officer, Chief Financial Officer, Vice-Chairman of the Board of Directors It's clearly a lot of road ahead for us with this asset for us to be considering alternatives. We do look at the decision tree with all the alternative plays. But I think what we see right now in terms of the interest that we've had on the asset on the previous position of Namibian operatives. What we have in terms of incoming information on the asset and what we already know and how we're incorporating it into a potential development plan. If you add to what we had already found with the first Northwest complex that we've had in Mopane. If you now have the results of our latest 12, the 3x. There's quite a lot of exciting information there as well. So really early days for us to be walking away from the focus that we have right now. I think this is an asset that will benefit from having the right pace of development, and that's very much what we're focused on right now. What we're seeing in terms of interest in predisposition is positive in that direction. So that's what we're exploring and that's what we're keeping all the focus of our teams on. So that's way too early for us to be actively discussing alternatives moving ahead. On your question on the contingent and the numbers that we've reported, the 10 billion barrels still stands. They refer to the global to the total of Mopane. And you have to take into consideration that the DMAC information that was public referred to November. So actually, it was kind of halfway through the campaign that we had ongoing at the time. So they're consistent as we see it. We -- there are, of course, mean risks in our estimates, and they have the methodology of DMAC, which is different from our models and our internal analytics, but we see them as consistent. We've shared with a focus on 3 Cs precisely because all the work that we have that we're doing in terms of development will bring further substance to any -- to these figures that we don't see yet as the most relevant ones to explain the full complex. I think it's positive to give a few additional notes. So if you look at DMACs those who were stated for our share, if you look at the 100% basis, is actually 0.9 billion barrels. So I think it's actually positive that this is an extrapolation for analog discovery. So fundamentally, what this tells us is that there's reassurance in knowing that there is this type of contingency in our findings with the little information that was known back in November. So all in all, our 10 billion barrels still stands, but a lot to learn about the complex.

Question: Matt Smith - Bank of America - Analyst : I had one on Namibia and one on Brazil. So the first one, Namibia I was hoping you could maybe provide some additional color on the Mopane 3x result. You noted higher than expected pressures in your press release. There's been a lot of sort of discussion in industry press that it was ahead of expectations. So perhaps better than previous wells drilled. Just wondered if you were able to talk to any of that and pull out any other notable characteristics beyond just the pressures, please. And then the second one, turning to Brazil and you turn around progress, noting that you're 40% through that turnaround progress for the year already. So I just wanted to ask how is the work program and the unit restarts also gone so far versus expectations? And how has that developed your confidence in the full year guidance, please? REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. APRIL 28, 2025 / 10:00AM, GALP.LS - Q1 2025 Galp Energia SGPS SA Earnings Call Maria Joao Carioca - Galp Energia SGPS SA - Co-Chief Executive Officer, Chief Financial Officer, Vice-Chairman of the Board of Directors On extra color on 3x. So we've indicated that I think I call it exciting. It's good characteristics what we've found and what we're still discovering so far. And again, I keep going back to the fact that this well was ended halfway through the quarter. So there's still a lot of information coming. Having said this, all the information we're getting is still confirming what we saw and shared initially. So hypermobility, good porosities. We have higher-than-expected pressures, which we see as a good sign, very low CO2, no H2S concentration. So all in all, good results. We're still integrating and analyzing all the income data. I think it's fair to say that if you look at the Southeast region, where Mopane 3x to place vis-a-vis the Northwest. what we see in the Southeast is in line with our expectations, and it's certainly oilier than the Northwest region. So oilier with good permeabilities, higher-than-expected but manageable pressures. So good indications, hence, my exciting objective for the fine if you're talking about color. On Brazil, indeed, 40%. We don't guide on yearly or seasonality of maintenance. So overall, this was, to a large extent, expected. Maintenance has been going well with no significant events to highlight. So we're maintaining our guidance of 105 barrels. So this, of course, in terms of guidance includes a little bit of caution with -- there's always, to some extent, unplanned events. So far, we've had very few of those, so very low-end planned events so far. So all in all, all according to plan, the concentration was to some extent expected, but we're not to provide in terms of production overall.

Question: Paul Redman - BNP Paribas Exane - Analyst : I have one quick question on the management structure now. Congratulations to both of you for the co-CEO roles, but I just wanted to work out how you're managing the business at the moment. I feel like I'm getting a bit of a Namibia side from Maria Joao. Let me know if that's right? And then my second question is, there's been some talk about a potential third hub. So we've got the Northwest, the Southeast. Is there any more color you could give me on how many additional hubs there could be at this asset? And if you agree, there is potential for a third hub right now? Maria Joao Carioca - Galp Energia SGPS SA - Co-Chief Executive Officer, Chief Financial Officer, Vice-Chairman of the Board of Directors So no, this is a co-CEO role. It's precisely about sharing and about being able to establish dialogue. So no allocation of Namibia, if you like. We have Nuno, who's just recently joined our Ex-Com, he's Head of Upstream and he is, of course, leading the day-to-day operations and the teams that are dealing not just with Namibia, but with the remainder of Upstream. Other than that, we're very focused on making sure that we get the good things out of this model. And we do live through those good things as being very much about stability and execution. So this allows us focus without having to transition, without having to move away from what is the strategic guidance that we find valid and making sure that, that strategic direction is deployed in a way that helps us navigate through the current volatility in the market instead of being a further hindrance. So it's governance wise, I understand not a very conventional solution, but we're very committed to making it work. And we've had very good support from the Board and in particular, from our colleagues in the Ex-Com. So it just speaks to how we complement each other in terms of capabilities, and we're navigating through it, of course. But so far, I think we're enjoying it, and we're adding value to Galp in doing so. REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. APRIL 28, 2025 / 10:00AM, GALP.LS - Q1 2025 Galp Energia SGPS SA Earnings Call On third hub in Mopane, I believe, well, way too soon to talk about that. There is great potential in Mopane, a large number of AVOs. But right now, again, we're very focused on making sure that we get the right development concept for what we already know about the Northwest region. And for the Southeast region, we are not at this stage moving forward towards the third hub so far. We believe that making sure that we catch up with all the information we got from the first initial explorational appraisal campaign is critical, and that's what stands in our decision tree at this moment as being the more value-accretive approach for the asset.

Question: Alejandro Vigil - Banco Santander, S.A. - Analyst : The first question is about Brazil. if you can give us an update on the Bacalhau project and also on the potential extension of the plateau for [2P]? And the second question it's about these comments you made about the potential optimization of CapEx in the context of lower oil prices. If you can elaborate on that some areas where you are expecting to delay CapEx or to, as you said, optimize? Maria Joao Carioca - Galp Energia SGPS SA - Co-Chief Executive Officer, Chief Financial Officer, Vice-Chairman of the Board of Directors (spoken in foreign language) Starting with Brazil on Bacalhau. So again, we're continuing to align with the operator in guiding for first oil later in 2025. So as I'm sure you're all aware, we've been discussing it before. The FPSO is already in Brazil, still works ongoing. So all the mooring, I think moorings, to a large extent, mostly completed, but then there is carryover and once that is done, there's still significant hook-up activity. So everything there is moving. We are relatively modest in terms of how that will translate into our P&L in 2025. So we do see this as being later into the year. We then see the ramp-up as being also critical to make sure that we drive value out of these new assets. Ramp-up will happen throughout 2026 according to our current expectations. So you will only reach plateau according to our current expectations in 2027, that will be another 40,000 barrels, which is significant in our portfolio. So our current estimates at plateau. So again, we're ramping up all the way through to 2027. But once we reach it, we expect that to be an addition of approximately $400 million, I believe, in terms of OCF. That's on a per annum basis. In terms of Tupi, some great asset. It's had a remarkable performance, and it's one of the assets where the good decline rates that we see in Brazil, we're talking about approximately 5% decline rates in an ultra-deepwater setting where the expected reference is approximately 8%. So this is a great performing asset and of course, we want to make sure that all that potential continues to be extracted. We were asking for an extension, and the whole Petrobras Brazil team is very keen on making sure, very engaged and working through that request for an extension. So again, great assets. Looking forward to make sure we get all the value out of it. We see it as one of the hallmarks of our Brazil portfolio. Now in terms of optimization of CapEx in terms of flexibility. As I mentioned before, I think the line under the current macro circumstances is very much the same line we've been sharing with you before. It's a line of disciplined investment decisions. And that, to an extent, was only present in the way we planned for 2025. So we know 2025 is a year where we have still significant CapEx lined up. So we have our investments in scenes with the H2 and the HVO facilities being at full steam ahead in terms of construction work. Bacalhau is still using up some of our CapEx. So it's a very much value accretive investment, what we're talking about in terms of 2025. Now having said that, we are conducting the same disciplined exercise. And that tells us that if we look at our current CapEx estimates, there's a bit of room, REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. APRIL 28, 2025 / 10:00AM, GALP.LS - Q1 2025 Galp Energia SGPS SA Earnings Call let's say, 10% to 20% in terms of possible optimization. We will take each of those decisions, and we will consider each of those opportunities very much in light of how well we're performing. Let me remind you, we're not revising guidance at this stage. So we believe we have sufficient comfort in our current plan to make sure that even though macro is indeed proving challenging, we have the necessary conditions to maintain our strong financial position. We have a dividend breakeven of approximately $20 per barrel. So that does give us sufficient flexibility. So it's, again, the trade-off between being very conscious of the need to optimize CapEx to be ahead of the curve in terms of knowing where that room for optimization is. I tend to take those decisions to the extent that they don't hinder our ability to continue the growth in our portfolio forward. So every investment that's value accretive, we will continue to consider it and it's still within our own estimates for the year.

Question: Michele Vigna - Goldman Sachs - Analyst : And sorry to keep asking about Namibia. But I wanted to ask you for a slightly different thing. And we've seen wells being drilled around your acreage, a dry well from Chevron. Well, looks like a successful well from Azule. I was wondering if there is any learning on your acreage that comes from these wells, perhaps does it open up new prospects in the block beyond Mopane? And then I wanted to ask you about your biofuel project and whether you still expect the SAF plant effectively to start up in 2026 despite what has

Question: Alastair Syme - Citi - Analyst : One more question on Namibia, I'm afraid. We went through this farm-out process last year, and I just wonder if you can reflect on why that didn't work and what you're doing differently with the farm-out this year. Is it essentially that you've just drilled the Southeast corner of the field? Or is there more to it than that? Maria Joao Carioca - Galp Energia SGPS SA - Co-Chief Executive Officer, Chief Financial Officer, Vice-Chairman of the Board of Directors I think the fact that we're reengaging would, to a large extent, some of the players that were in conversations before speaks to how we see what happened in 2024. I think we came to a mutual understanding that there was still information to be obtained about Mopane and about our block as a whole. And that it would be put out for all parties interested that, that information would be obtained. I think there was, to a large extent, agreement that's what we were prepared to do because we saw it ourselves as the plan moving ahead with the asset in terms of E&A, but it was well received by proposed partners, and it was mutually acknowledged that we could run through those activities that could give all parties a clear review. And that's where we're standing right now. So that's, hence, finding it natural to not reengaging. We've come to what we have agreed to do in terms of further understanding the asset. We're now sharing that information. When we look at our decision 3 concerning the asset, this is the right moment for us to reengage and to have information actually feeding a productive discussion. So I guess that's what I would comment. It's not necessarily a classification or a note on what happened differently or what happens differently now versus 2024. The information and the maturity of our knowledge of the asset has changed. So we expect that to drive us forward.

Question: Sasikanth Chilukuru - Morgan Stanley - Analyst : I had two I'm afraid all both on Namibia again. First one was starting some recent comments we've seen from the new President of Namibia and also the Petroleum Commissioner, stressing the importance of local content for any potential developments there and also calling for synergies and collaboration between the partners of all the discoveries in Namibia so far, including some gas-only discoveries. I was just wondering how this was affecting your planning for the development in the Northwest region of Mopane? Any thoughts on this would be helpful. REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. APRIL 28, 2025 / 10:00AM, GALP.LS - Q1 2025 Galp Energia SGPS SA Earnings Call The second one was on the sales. I was wondering if you could give some color on the recovery factors and the gas oil ratio used for the 0.9 billion 3C-ed resources that you've added so far. It appears to be that there is a significant proportion of gas in these resources which is added -- this is done by the auditor. I just wanted to check whether it was from. Maria Joao Carioca - Galp Energia SGPS SA - Co-Chief Executive Officer, Chief Financial Officer, Vice-Chairman of the Board of Directors So on the recent address to the nation from the Madam President in Namibia, we've had very productive, very constructive conversations with Namibian government so far. We understand the relevance of the asset, and we understand a stance that is focused on making sure that the conditions for the asset to be developed are in place and that the conditions for Namibian people to actually share in the value of that asset to be there. So we look at local content and synergies is something that is normal. We see it across many other basins. This has, to an extent, been computed into all the partners and all the entities that are working there. If anything, we've had an extremely productive relationship in Brazil, and I think Brazil is where we are closer at home and experiencing the quality of local content and how that can actually be decisive in bringing an asset of the relevance that we believe Namibia can aspire to be bringing that forward. So it's a long way ahead. It's important and that these things and these intents are clear from the start. We see them as natural. To an extent, we welcome an open dialogue about them. And we see them as a way to look forward in terms of making sure that the common, the shared interest, which is keeping pace and delivering the value of these assets is actually met. So no big additions to make on that topic. On the recovery factors and the gas to oil ratio on the 3Cs. So again, very different methodologies, DMAC and our models and again very different scope. And I think that is critical to always keep in mind. This is the information that DMAC has as it refers back to November. So again, that is very partial. Mopane is a rather large system. What we're finding is that AVOs have different characteristics. So we don't have a discomfort or find an inconsistency in the numbers that DMAC presented. But they do not stand for the whole of the complex or the whole of Mopane. And again, they're compatible with our models, but they're very, very partial and they're early days in terms of estimates. So I would just leave it at that.

Question: Matthew Lofting - J.P. Morgan Cazenove - Analyst : I wondered if you could remind us of the main criteria Galps thinking about or focusing on when it looks to establish, as you said, a value-accretive partnership in Namibia. Your sense of whether current market volatilities having an impact on the reengagement process for what's clearly a longer term rather than nearer-term asset? Secondly, you talked about the midstream business earlier. I wondered if you could just come back on refining as well. 1Q margins, I think, modestly below the full year plan that you framed in February. How cracks trending now year-to-date during April? I'm just wondering the extent to which you're seeing any positive integration effect or offset against recent downward pressure on oil prices. REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. APRIL 28, 2025 / 10:00AM, GALP.LS - Q1 2025 Galp Energia SGPS SA Earnings Call Maria Joao Carioca - Galp Energia SGPS SA - Co-Chief Executive Officer, Chief Financial Officer, Vice-Chairman of the Board of Directors So on what is a value-accretive partnership, I think we've already been explicit about the fact that we value the notion of establishing a partnership with an experienced operator. What we see in the asset side and in the asset's characteristics leads us to believe that this is a good set of skills to have to make sure that we drive the assets forward in the best possible way. So then once you've established that, I think the second criteria for us is clearly got to do with the pace at which we develop the asset. Would like a partnership to be established with someone that within their portfolio does not bring Mopane to a second layer or to a non-priority level. This is relevant for us. Mopane has the potential to be worthy of a first track development, and we would like to find a partner that looks at Mopane in that same way. We believe that if these two are aligned, then it is, of course, very, very much an issue of making sure that we conduct a fair valuation. We share information and we align our interests. Hence, some of my comments about the fact that we do not want to close the time line. These things take time. As relevant to us to close the deal as it is to make sure that the deal is closed in a way that is conducive to the value of the asset to be explored. If -- I believe you mentioned the potential impact of the current context. There's an element, of course, of long-term investment here, so this has to be interest that manifests through the cycle and that's what we're seeing in terms of the potential partners that have come forth. Now having said that, nobody dropped off the conversation. So there was no disengaging. There was no reaction to macro context and to geopolitic context in the sense. So far, what we see is this share that this is an asset worth through the cycle approach. So no major impact so far. On refining margins, Joao, can you take this one? Joao Diogo da Silva - Galp Energia SGPS SA - Co-Chief Executive Officer, Executive Vice President - Commercial, Director Yes. Let me take that part. And Matt, yes, indeed, April to date, we've seen refining margin pressured at below -- just below $4 per barrel reflecting well -- weaker support on the middle distillate cracks. On the first Q, if we look at our refining margin, it was slightly higher Q-on-Q despite all the volatility there that we are facing on the crack environment, but also the suboptimal, let's say, let's call it like that, operation given the bad weather condition that we suffered on the first couple of months this year. Looking -- going forward, well, we are expecting refining margin on circa $6 per barrel, 2025-2026. That's our guidance. We are not changing our guidance at this point. As we know, we are facing a very uncertain outlook with volatility impacting demand dynamics, but we will remain focused on optimizing our processes and optimizing cost-saving initiatives, and that's where we will put all our efforts at this point.

Question: Matt Cooper - Barclays Bank AG - Analyst : So in February, Total announced that the venous permeability was in the range of 2 millidarcys to 4 millidarcys. I just wondered given the amount of data that you now have, are you able to give some high-level color on the range of permeabilities you're seeing at Mopane given you say good to high permeability, would it be unfair to say that equates to around 500 millidarcys in that region. And then secondly, could you run through the advantages for the development of the higher permeabilities that you're seeing in Mopane? Maria Joao Carioca - Galp Energia SGPS SA - Co-Chief Executive Officer, Chief Financial Officer, Vice-Chairman of the Board of Directors So on what we're seeing in terms of permeability, we're not really being specific about the numbers. We are seeing in the permeability ranges which are significantly higher from what we've seen other of our peers announced and discussed. We see that, of course, as an upside to the development, but we're not adding any further information on that topic right now.