HIL Ltd Q1 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

The following is excerpted from the question-and-answer section of the transcript.

Question: Viraj Kacharia - Securities Investment Management Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : Yes, hi --

Question: Viraj Kacharia - Securities Investment Management Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : (technical difficulty) hear me? REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. AUGUST 02, 2023 / 6:00AM, HLLT.NS - Q1 2024 HIL Ltd Earnings Call

Question: Viraj Kacharia - Securities Investment Management Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : Hello.

Question: Viraj Kacharia - Securities Investment Management Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : Yeah, I just had a couple of questions on the roofing side. First is, I think what you said at the opening remarks is the fiber cost is now at a new level and still under recovery in terms of the raw material cost inflation, correct me, if I heard it right. So, one, the question is basically if you can just provide, what is the extent of under recovery? And any perspective you can share in terms of the market share trends and the price premium, which

Question: Viraj Kacharia - Securities Investment Management Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : So the second question is largely in terms of the market dynamics or the competition dynamics in roofing. One of the larger competitors had expanded capacity a couple of quarters back. And there was some aggression in terms of more volume-led sales, hence the pressure on prices. What is that you're seeing now in the marketplace, so this -- is there now rationality among competition? And similarly in terms of the demand environment as well. So the under absorption of a 5% to 6% inflation, can that be now passed on in coming quarters? I mean is that now -- others also looking in the marketplace?

Question: Viraj Kacharia - Securities Investment Management Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : Okay. And this last part, again, on roofing is, do we see any other new capacity being added in the market or any rationalization of existing capacity in the industry?

Question: Viraj Kacharia - Securities Investment Management Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : Okay. And if I can just squeeze in one more question on the broader strategy. So in the opening remarks, you talked about us -- we've seen addition in the senior management level, we got a new head of -- person heading Parador. So in terms of the broader capacity building either in terms of people or processes. Is that process by and large over? Are we still seeing gaps and any perspective you can give on that?

Question: Dhananjay Mishra - Sunidhi Securities & Finance Ltd. - Analyst : Best of luck to the outgoing CFO and also congratulations to Ajay for appointment as CFO. And my question is if you could provide the utilization level for FY -- for this quarter in all the categories. And also, you said that this fiber pricing is going to be new normal and with 3% increase in price, REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. AUGUST 02, 2023 / 6:00AM, HLLT.NS - Q1 2024 HIL Ltd Earnings Call we could -- we still have 60% underrecovery in terms of price increase we have seen in fiber. So if we -- at what level, let's say, 5% to 6%, 7% price increase maybe 2%, 3% down the line, can we achieve the earlier margin we used to do in this roofing segment?

Question: Dhananjay Mishra - Sunidhi Securities & Finance Ltd. - Analyst : So pipe sector, we are still at 70%, right, of the -- I mean, even with 17% volume growth?

Question: Dhananjay Mishra - Sunidhi Securities & Finance Ltd. - Analyst : Okay. And for next one or two years perspective, which product will be more focus area in terms of -- I mean, where do you see the growth coming in and where we need to build more capacity? I mean, of course, you said that fiber roofing segment is going to be segment for -- I mean, in terms of growth but within building solution and its polymer business and flooring business. So which will be the more focus area for you where we see more growth coming in for the next one to two years?

Question: Dhananjay Mishra - Sunidhi Securities & Finance Ltd. - Analyst : And lastly, I mean, a few quarters back when (inaudible) was there, so he was also talking about some -- introducing some new product all together to reach our $1 billion because listing products may not be sufficient to reach this $1 billion. So have you worked on those lines introducing some new product in a new business category all together? REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. AUGUST 02, 2023 / 6:00AM, HLLT.NS - Q1 2024 HIL Ltd Earnings Call

Question: Deepak Poddar - Sapphire Capital Management LLC - Analyst : First I wanted to understand something on the seasonality part. I mean, generally, the first quarter is the best quarter for us. So how is our trend in terms of seasonality over the years?

Question: Deepak Poddar - Sapphire Capital Management LLC - Analyst : Correct. And roofing stands to have a major contribution to our revenue, right? So overall sense of revenue, it gives a push, right?

Question: Deepak Poddar - Sapphire Capital Management LLC - Analyst : Understood. Fair enough. And sir, my second question is on EBITDA margin. I mean you did speak about -- I mean, in terms of price points also catching up and so our margins can be back to earlier levels of a particular segment. But at the company level, what should be our aspirational margins that on a steady-state basis we should be looking at?

Question: Deepak Poddar - Sapphire Capital Management LLC - Analyst : And that is at the company level, we are talking 12% to 14%, right? REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. AUGUST 02, 2023 / 6:00AM, HLLT.NS - Q1 2024 HIL Ltd Earnings Call

Question: Deepak Poddar - Sapphire Capital Management LLC - Analyst : EBITDA margin. And in any timeline, I mean, short term, one to two years would be a fair time of timeline that we should target?

Question: Satish Kumar - Incred Financial Services Ltd. - Analyst : I have a question on Parador. How do you -- how is the demand shaping up right now, I mean, in terms of YoY? I know it's a seasonally weak period, but how generally the demand is right now? REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. AUGUST 02, 2023 / 6:00AM, HLLT.NS - Q1 2024 HIL Ltd Earnings Call

Question: Alisha Mahawla - Envision Capital Services Private Ltd. - Analyst : So firstly, just wanted to know that a couple of quarters back, about 1 year, 1.5 years back, we had set out on a $1 billion-revenue aspiration by FY26. Are we still holding on to that aspiration? Have we pushed it back or do we have a revised target?

Question: Alisha Mahawla - Envision Capital Services Private Ltd. - Analyst : That's great. Just a clarification here, you mentioned from earlier part that, as a company, your steady-state margins to be at 12%, 14%. So we're expecting those kind of margins to also come by FY26?

Question: Alisha Mahawla - Envision Capital Services Private Ltd. - Analyst : So how would you justify -- you did mention that the bunker cost is relatively higher, but we're also seeing some weakness in demand. Q1 is seasonally the strongest quarter, and the price hikes you've taken had not been enough. Is there scope to take more price hike for the remaining three quarters, keeping in mind that normally most -- the price in Q1 is sort of what works for the rest of the year and the competitive intensity also? And in that case, how will the margins for the rest of the year will be similar to Q1?

Question: Alisha Mahawla - Envision Capital Services Private Ltd. - Analyst : Okay. Sure. And is that -- the CapEx that we were doing on the building materials and the pipe side is all coming or is there any other CapEx that's currently in the pipeline or (technical difficulty) expense for this year?

Question: Alisha Mahawla - Envision Capital Services Private Ltd. - Analyst : What is the CapEx for the year, please?

Question: Alisha Mahawla - Envision Capital Services Private Ltd. - Analyst : Sure. And just one last question with respect to Parador. When you've done the acquisition, you used to say that India-wise, let's call it niche market, the plan was eventually to grow that business in India. But most of our commentary right now has been to focus on the international markets only. Is there not a market for that in India, a new scope of growing that business in India? REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. AUGUST 02, 2023 / 6:00AM, HLLT.NS - Q1 2024 HIL Ltd Earnings Call

Question: Alisha Mahawla - Envision Capital Services Private Ltd. - Analyst : Okay. That's great to hear.

Question: Chirag Shah - Nidara Capital Management LLP - Analyst : Yeah. Hi, sir. Can you hear me?

Question: Chirag Shah - Nidara Capital Management LLP - Analyst : Okay, and congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, you mentioned that roofing has seen a sluggish start in Q1. Is there any chance of spillover of revenue in Q2, a part of the revenue which we may have missed in Q1?

Question: Chirag Shah - Nidara Capital Management LLP - Analyst : Okay. Okay. And sir, would you be able to give us the breakup of revenue in blocks and panels separately? REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. AUGUST 02, 2023 / 6:00AM, HLLT.NS - Q1 2024 HIL Ltd Earnings Call

Question: Chirag Shah - Nidara Capital Management LLP - Analyst : Okay. And sir, would the margins be similar in the 12%, 13% EBITDA margins would be in what range for these two segments?

Question: Chirag Shah - Nidara Capital Management LLP - Analyst : Okay. Okay. That's it from side. Thank you, sir.

Question: Nikhil Gupta - Abakkus Asset Manager LLP - Analyst : Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is on the Parador part of the business. We have seen a decent improvement in gross margins. And generally, if we see historically, we have been in the range of a 50% or 48% to 50% in Parador. So is it fair to say that by the end of this year, let's say, 4Q, we can reach those gross margins? And if we reach those levels, what kind of EBITDA margins can we see in the business?

Question: Nikhil Gupta - Abakkus Asset Manager LLP - Analyst : And that is something you mentioned should be more visible from the third quarter onwards, right?

Question: Nikhil Gupta - Abakkus Asset Manager LLP - Analyst : Understood. Sir, and just one clarification, when you mentioned that we have EUR75 million of orders in the pipeline, is this something which is executable in this particular year? And can you also highlight the margins that you do in the commercial business versus the retail at a gross margin level, let's say?

Question: Nikhil Gupta - Abakkus Asset Manager LLP - Analyst : Got it, sir. Sir, just one question on the long-term aspiration in Parador where you are talking about -- if I just convert in Indian rupees, around INR4,000 crores to INR4,500 crores of visibility in revenue over the next 5 years. When we look at that number, we are talking about a CAGR growth of somewhere around 25%, which is definitely quite optimistic. So if you can highlight when you want to achieve those kind of revenues. Which are the geographies -- if you can break it up for us, how much would come from Europe, North America, Asia, that would be useful.

Question: Nikhil Gupta - Abakkus Asset Manager LLP - Analyst : I'll take this offline sir, no problem. Just quickly on the pipes business, and specifically, can you give us a breakup on the EBIT numbers between pipes and putty for this quarter?

Question: Nikhil Gupta - Abakkus Asset Manager LLP - Analyst : So if my numbers show me right, I think we are looking at 2.6% EBIT margins in polymer solutions for 1Q.

Question: Nikhil Gupta - Abakkus Asset Manager LLP - Analyst : So you're talking about EBITDA margins? EBITDA --

Question: Nikhil Gupta - Abakkus Asset Manager LLP - Analyst : And there was no element of inventory loss or -- REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. AUGUST 02, 2023 / 6:00AM, HLLT.NS - Q1 2024 HIL Ltd Earnings Call

Question: Nikhil Gupta - Abakkus Asset Manager LLP - Analyst : Okay. And for '24, what kind of margin guidance you would give for just the polymer solution business given that we are seeing a decent growth in that business?

Question: Nikhil Gupta - Abakkus Asset Manager LLP - Analyst : Got it, sir. Just one last clarification, sir, just on the pipe's capacity, can you highlight what is the current capacity we have? And what is the mix between PVC and CPVC currently?

Question: Nikhil Gupta - Abakkus Asset Manager LLP - Analyst : And sir, out of the INR150 crores, how much CapEx would be for pipes in '24?

Question: Nikhil Gupta - Abakkus Asset Manager LLP - Analyst : Got it, sir. Thank you for answering all my questions. Thanks. REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. AUGUST 02, 2023 / 6:00AM, HLLT.NS - Q1 2024 HIL Ltd Earnings Call

Question: Tushar Sarda - Athena Investments - Analyst : Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. You guided for doubling revenue in three years. So is this going to be all organic in the three segments, or this includes acquisitions?

Question: Tushar Sarda - Athena Investments - Analyst : So what would be the organic growth in that case, if you can give guidance segment-wise?

Question: Tushar Sarda - Athena Investments - Analyst : Inorganic guidance -- I'm asking for guidance on organic growth in each of the segments. That should be relatively easy.

Question: Tushar Sarda - Athena Investments - Analyst : No, no. I'm asking, sir, for example, Parador what will be the organic growth? Polymer solution, what will be the organic growth over the next few years? and building solution, what will be the organic growth?

Question: Tushar Sarda - Athena Investments - Analyst : Okay. I think that helps. Thank you. Thank you very much, and all the best.

Question: Tushar Sarda - Athena Investments - Analyst : Yeah, it does. And I think you've explained your plans in great detail, so really appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

Question: Deep Gandhi - Astute Investment Management Private Limited - Analyst : Yes. Good afternoon, sir.

Question: Deep Gandhi - Astute Investment Management Private Limited - Analyst : I'm Deep. REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. AUGUST 02, 2023 / 6:00AM, HLLT.NS - Q1 2024 HIL Ltd Earnings Call

Question: Deep Gandhi - Astute Investment Management Private Limited - Analyst : Yeah. Hi, sir. Sir, my first question is you mentioned that in this quarter, you are in the building solutions. As you highlighted, INR77 crores was from the block business. So was this number similar for even, say, FY23, 60%, 40%? So 60% from the panels and for the blocks and remaining for boards and panels? Was it similar in FY23 also?

Question: Deep Gandhi - Astute Investment Management Private Limited - Analyst : Okay. Sure, sir. Sir, the next question I had was, so you had also announced some expansion here, I can almost 36,000 tonnes of expansion for panels, which in the annual report you had confirmed was commercialized. I wanted an update. So is the board's capacity also commercialized, which was almost 30,000 tonnes, which you had announced in 2021 announcement? You can confirm that.

Question: Deep Gandhi - Astute Investment Management Private Limited - Analyst : Okay. So what kind of --

Question: Deep Gandhi - Astute Investment Management Private Limited - Analyst : Sure. And sir, just a continuation of this question, what kind of asset terms is possible you are expecting from both of this expansion? And when do you think you'll be able to reach the optimum utilization here?

Question: Deep Gandhi - Astute Investment Management Private Limited - Analyst : Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you.

Question: Bharat Sheth - Quest Investment Advisors Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : Hello?

Question: Bharat Sheth - Quest Investment Advisors Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, just want to understand on this Parador business, when we are talking almost, say, in our journey to $1 billion, so 50% a year we are expecting from Parador. And when we are talking about, say, 12% to 13% or 14% kind of margin journey, so how do we expect the Parador contribution on the margin side from two, three years' perspective when we reach for three, four years, say, EUR500 million revenue? If you can give any -- some color. And second, and we are talking of commercial vis-a-vis B2C, so can it cannibalize our B2C business if same commercial people, I mean start selling to our customers? How do we want to differentiate. And third is, I mean, really, commercial is that high-margin business. Of course, it may give us a higher top line, but EBITDA would be a little under a lower side?

Question: Bharat Sheth - Quest Investment Advisors Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : Yeah, I can hear you. Sir, you may please go ahead.

Question: Bharat Sheth - Quest Investment Advisors Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : Correct.

Question: Bharat Sheth - Quest Investment Advisors Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : Direct B2C business.

Question: Bharat Sheth - Quest Investment Advisors Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : Okay. Fair --

Question: Bharat Sheth - Quest Investment Advisors Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : And sorry, I mean, further to that, I mean, will it be a different geography that we want to play like or only in Europe. So if you can give some color

Question: Bharat Sheth - Quest Investment Advisors Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : So in commercial also, we are looking at those markets?

Question: Bharat Sheth - Quest Investment Advisors Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : Okay. Great. And all the best, sir. Thank you.

Question: Saket Kapoor - Kapoor & Company - Analyst : Yeah. (spoken in Indian), Akshat.

Question: Saket Kapoor - Kapoor & Company - Analyst : Sir, firstly, on the point of the roofing part, sir, structurally, if whatever you narrated over the meeting point, it is clear that this year, even after the seasonality factor that comes into play, there has been no reduction in the prices, which generally happens in the month of July. So taking that into account, do we expect that the worst in terms of the cost of fiber part is over for the roofing segment? How structurally is correctly the roofing segment? And how is the demand, especially from the rural side because of this erratic monsoon behavior as has been the case many times. So if you could give some more color on this here.

Question: Saket Kapoor - Kapoor & Company - Analyst : Okay. And if we look at the segmental results, when we take the stand-alone and the consolidation part, in the consolidation, there is a lot of hype in the flooring segment, flooring solutions segment. So what should be the likelihood for going ahead? Is the worst behind us in terms of the contribution, the negative contribution from the segment going ahead? So just to sum up how will -- first, what is the indication from the first quarter in terms of the profitability going ahead? Is that stuff being built now, and we can very likely look for profitable journey going ahead? REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. AUGUST 02, 2023 / 6:00AM, HLLT.NS - Q1 2024 HIL Ltd Earnings Call

Question: Saket Kapoor - Kapoor & Company - Analyst : Right, sir. Thank you, sir. But what you mentioned about Q1, I missed; Q1 being a big quarter for the roofing segment. If we compare the current Q1 with last year, if you could give the like-to-like comparison between the demand and the inflation level. And also pan-India level, how have the utilization for all the existing players, if you could give us competitive data or and an indication how Q1 was versus last year FY 2022.

Question: Saket Kapoor - Kapoor & Company - Analyst : Yes, sir. And sir, as a last point, on the fiber part, you mentioned that there are no signs of -- the fiber price is even correcting going forward. So what factors are actually supporting the higher fiber prices. Is this the geopolitical part that is playing out? Because every commodity, every other aspects have not only corrected, but many of them have even come down to below pre-COVID levels. So what factors are actually contributing to this high trend upward? And what would be the trajectory for the coming years for the fiber prices?

Question: Saket Kapoor - Kapoor & Company - Analyst : Yes, sir. This is one the -- that is what I was earlier speaking. This is the -- because of the availability within Q1, that is the key reason why the theme had not -- are getting corrected. We have no other mitigating step also in terms of -- REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. AUGUST 02, 2023 / 6:00AM, HLLT.NS - Q1 2024 HIL Ltd Earnings Call

Question: Saket Kapoor - Kapoor & Company - Analyst : Correct, sir. Sir, I'll join the queue, and thank you once again, sir. And we hope for next continuity of this call, sir. Thank you.

Question: Sanjay Kumar - ithought PMS - Analyst : Hello? Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. First on pipe, 17% volume growth in Q1 which is very good. But when I look at competitors, they've grown by 27%, 28%, and one -- the leader is at 36%. So why are we lagging behind despite having 30% unutilized capacity? And what is driving this demand for us, even the 17% volume growth?

Question: Sanjay Kumar - ithought PMS - Analyst : Right. Makes sense. And second, on flooring. So sales continue to degrow by 20%. Can you give the breakup of growth in, say, non-Europe growth versus degrowth in Europe. That will be the first part.

Question: Sanjay Kumar - ithought PMS - Analyst : So sales for flooring segment, degrew by 20%, roughly. Can you give the breakup of this degrowth to growth in non-Europe versus Europe?

Question: Sanjay Kumar - ithought PMS - Analyst : Right. Okay. And last quarter, you mentioned cost has stabilized, yet margins have deteriorated this quarter also. So please comment on the liquidity situation, given we have started posting cash losses adjusting for depreciation, and we're also infusing EUR10 million. So any thoughts on the liquidity and the cost structures?

Question: Sanjay Kumar - ithought PMS - Analyst : Nothing to be worried about?

Question: Sanjay Kumar - ithought PMS - Analyst : Okay. Finally, on roofing, in a tough environment, we did 17% margins, which is very commendable. You even spoke about positive impact of efforts on sourcing. From the data I have, I think we seem to be importing much more than we used to from South Africa. Is it a new supplier, or is it Russia being routed through South Africa? If you could get into the details of the positive impact of the sourcing that you spoke about, that will be very helpful. REFINITIV STREETEVENTS | www.refinitiv.com | Contact Us consent of Refinitiv. 'Refinitiv' and the Refinitiv logo are registered trademarks of Refinitiv and its affiliated companies. AUGUST 02, 2023 / 6:00AM, HLLT.NS - Q1 2024 HIL Ltd Earnings Call

Question: Sanjay Kumar - ithought PMS - Analyst : Okay. Can you comment on the Russian suppliers as well? Who do we buy our PVC and CPVC versus from? Because each player seems to have an agreement with one of the large players.

Question: Sanjay Kumar - ithought PMS - Analyst : No. CPVC, globally, if you could give the name of the supplier, or is it confidential?

Question: Sanjay Kumar - ithought PMS - Analyst : Right. Perfect. If I could squeeze one, 30% inorganic, are you looking at global through Parador because you've jumped your guidance from EUR400 million to EUR500 million now? Or are you looking at inorganic in India?

Question: Sanjay Kumar - ithought PMS - Analyst : Perfect, sir. That's it for me, sir. Thank you.

Question: Nikhil Upadhyay - Securities Investment Management Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : Yeah. Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for the opportunity. Just two questions, one on Parador. Akshat, you mentioned on the commercial side, we are a new player. But what is the total size of the commercial market where we were not present? And as of now, the demand or whatever we are getting, is it again in the Central Europe, which is the home market, or is it across whole of Europe? So yeah.

Question: Nikhil Upadhyay - Securities Investment Management Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : Sure. Thanks. And just one last question. This is on the AAC block. We are a pretty old player in the market. And if I compare our margin profile, you mentioned we are around 10% to 12%. But if you compare another listed player, they have almost like 20%, 25% EBITDA margin in the business. While their scale and volume -- capacity wise, is smaller than what we have, do you see the sense that this business can become significantly profitable? Or anything you have, or you think on the margin profile how this business can scale up? And just a subsequent question now, we always talked that 30% of the business or revenue is coming from roofing. But our profitability is still highly dependent upon roofing. Now as a management, what kind of a guiding pillar you are working on so as to diversify that margin or cash flow generation also getting diversified away from this?

Question: Nikhil Upadhyay - Securities Investment Management Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : Yes. No. The only thing was that do you think that this is a 10% kind of a business? Or do you think that even this business can scale up to, say, 14%, 15% kind of a margin profile? That's the only point I was trying to understand that. Like is the inherent nature of the business 10%, or do you think the inherent nature of the business is much more?

Question: Nikhil Upadhyay - Securities Investment Management Pvt. Ltd. - Analyst : Okay. Sure. And appreciate the patience with me to have answered the questions. Thanks a lot.

Question: Miraj Shah - Arihant Capital Markets Ltd. - Analyst : Yeah. Thank you for taking my questions. I just had one clarification. In one of the questions earlier, you mentioned in Parador side business, there is a pipeline -- order pipeline of almost EUR75 million. But I just wanted to clarify this, that the following line, you mentioned that this is some 25% to 30% of the total order pipeline. So just want to clarify this again, is that only 25%, 30% of the total pipeline that you have? And it is in commercial, or have I understood it correctly somehow?

Question: Miraj Shah - Arihant Capital Markets Ltd. - Analyst : jGot it, yeah. Thanks a lot for the clarification. That's it from my side.