The following is excerpted from the question-and-answer section of the transcript.
(Questions from industry analysts are provided in full, but answers are omitted - download the transcript to see the full question-and-answer session)
Question: Jason Goldberg - Barclays Services Corp - Analyst
: Maybe the best place to start, Doug, is just given CIB encompasses Global Banking, Markets, Payment, Securities Services; does
business with, I think, 90%-plus of the Fortune 500 over 60 countries. Just give us an overview of what you're hearing, seeing from
your customer base. I don't know how you want to segment that, but I'm just kind of curious. You're clearly in the know.
Douglas Petno - JPMorgan Chase & Co - Co-Chief Executive Officer - Commercial & Investment Bank
Sure, Jason. So first, thank you. Great to see you. Great to see everybody. It's nice to be here. As you say, we have an amazing wholesale
Question: Jason Goldberg - Barclays Services Corp - Analyst
: Got it. And maybe we can just kind of just -- next step, we can maybe just run through the businesses individually. I have to start
with Markets.
Totally appreciate we take a longer-term view here. But just any kind of thoughts on the quarter-to-date trends in trading, both FICC,
equities, and kind of what you're hearing, seeing?
Douglas Petno - JPMorgan Chase & Co - Co-Chief Executive Officer - Commercial & Investment Bank
Yeah. Our Markets team is doing extremely well. We're very proud of the performance. They're on track to have a terrific year. The
momentum from the first half of the year has extended into the third quarter. We're seeing broad-based strength across FICC and
equities and in particular, strength in securitized product rates and credit. And equity is really the strength across the entire client
franchise.
We're seeing elevated client activity. And then there's just the trading performance in those teams has been quite good. And we
have a few weeks left in the quarter. But we would sort of estimate that Markets revenue for the quarter would be up sort of in the
high-teens percentage rate. Obviously, a few weeks to go. There's -- anything could happen to be a showstopper. We don't expect
that. But as we sit here today, we're expecting a strong quarter in Markets.
Question: Jason Goldberg - Barclays Services Corp - Analyst
: Got it. And I guess, before we kind of move off of trading, the Markets' balance sheet has increased quite significantly over the past
year. Maybe just talk to the thought process behind the growth and the appetite to continue to run the balance sheet from here?
Douglas Petno - JPMorgan Chase & Co - Co-Chief Executive Officer - Commercial & Investment Bank
Yeah. Financing our Markets clients is something we've done for a long time. And I think it gets back to -- the root of our strategy is
to build every one of our businesses in CIB around our clients, have a deep understanding of what their needs may be, and the capital
intensity of our Markets clients is increasing.
We're trying to provide credit solutions in an agnostic way and bring value to our clients. In many cases, providing loans to the clients
preserves your existing Markets revenue pool. In some cases, it opens up and expands your wallet opportunity with our clients. And
it's very often the case that these financing products on their own are standalone profitable and interesting for us.
But I think that you should expect financing revenues as a part of our Markets business overall to continue to start climb this -- step
up over time. I think a positive of that is it brings much more stability to Markets revenue. Those revenue pools are much less volatile
Question: Jason Goldberg - Barclays Services Corp - Analyst
: Makes sense. We'll put up the next ARS question as we kind of shift maybe to kind of Global Banking loan growth. Loans in, I guess,
CIB were up like 6% sequentially in the second quarter. It was up from 1% in the prior three quarters.
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SEPTEMBER 09, 2025 / 2:30PM, JPM.N - JPMorgan Chase & Co at Barclays Global Financial Services Conference
Banking and Payments loans are up 4% in the second quarter. And you mentioned on the call, it was mentioned a lot of activity
coming late in the quarter. Just maybe talk to how you see the back half of the year playing out, and is the growth last quarter a sign
that demand is picking up?
Douglas Petno - JPMorgan Chase & Co - Co-Chief Executive Officer - Commercial & Investment Bank
I mean -- and just to set the stage and remind everybody, for us, growing loans is an outcome of the strategy. It's not the strategy. I
think indicative of that, over half of our middle-market clients don't borrow from us.
We do have a full suite of credit and lending products, asset-based securities, securitization, whole business securitization, revolvers,
trade, direct lending. We have a full suite that we provide to clients, but growing loans is really not the core strategy. So we deploy
capital to support our clients. Where we've seen growth is a combination of factors.
We're adding new customers. We're adding over 3,000 middle-market clients a year. With that, comes some loan growth. So it's the
organic expansion of our business, brings full relationship. We're going to grow loans. We're seeing some sort of situation-specific
loan growth as clients pull down on the revolvers to do two things.
I think there's more capital spending coming out of sort of the fog lifting that I described at the beginning. And you're starting to --
you were saying earlier in the year, some inventory financing brought forward just given the trade uncertainty.
And maybe one of the biggest contributing factors to loan growth -- it comes in a more lumpy format -- is just cash M&A. If you look
at the growth that you saw in our second-quarter loan portfolio, a lot of that was driven by a handful of small -- or a handful of large,
rather, cash M&A transactions in our bridge book. So I think going forward, there will be a number of forces that sort of affect our
loan growth.
Will there be sustained cash M&A? If rates come down, we might see new originations in commercial term lending and our commercial
real estate businesses. And then depending on the strength of the economy, if the economy sort of stays on the rails, we expect
clients to have a lot of pent-up demand, capital spending, and growth. And we hope to finance a lot of that.
So I don't think there's anything unusual going on. It's a combination of contributing factors. But I wouldn't look at the second quarter
as being sort of an indicator of what to expect going forward.
Question: Jason Goldberg - Barclays Services Corp - Analyst
: And I guess, just on the fee side, you touched earlier on just strong kind of equity issuance. We've been reading a lot more about
kind of corporate M&A picking up. Maybe just talk to kind of your outlook for Investment Banking, both maybe near term and then
just looking out.
Douglas Petno - JPMorgan Chase & Co - Co-Chief Executive Officer - Commercial & Investment Bank
We're actually turning out to have a pretty good year in Investment Banking. I reflect on our Investor Day where it was -- in the days
following Liberation Day, we were much more sanguine about the outlook. Literally a couple of weeks after that, the Markets kind
of took off. Team has done a great job, and then the last several months have been quite busy.
It's been one of the busiest summers, certainly maybe one of the biggest -- busiest August we've had in a long time. Again, like
Markets, we still have a few weeks to go in the quarter. But if things progress as we expect they will And Just based on our pipelines,
we're sort of pegging our Q3 Investment Banking revenues hit up sort of low double digits.
Again, like Markets, anything could happen, but we feel there's a lot of animal spirits at the moment. Big M&A is back. It's maybe one
of the biggest last few months we've had in a long, long time. There is a strategic imperative to be global, big, diversified, integrate
your operations. And there's also a sense that you have a finite window of time to complete large M&A before the regulatory sentiment
may shift back.
So I think that we're expecting to see large M&A continue until something happens that slows it down. ECM, markets wide open. I
mean, big IPOs are back. We've had four big IPOs, over $1 billion. They're performing well. The pipelines are good. There's a lot of
invested cash, seeking liquidity both in venture capital and private equity that's looking to find a market. So we expect the ECM
business for us to continue to be robust.
And then the technicals and DCM are really strong. Spreads are at historic types. And most of our clients are taking advantage of
open-credit markets to either fund their cash M&A or term out any floating rate exposure they have. So literally across the board in
Banking, the teams are quite busy. And we feel great about sort of the outlook there.
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SEPTEMBER 09, 2025 / 2:30PM, JPM.N - JPMorgan Chase & Co at Barclays Global Financial Services Conference
I wanted to say -- just to offset the revenue growth in both Markets and Banking -- sorry to cut you off -- with the higher outlook in
both of those businesses, you're going to see higher performance-related expenses, as we call them good expenses. It's just comp
will correlate to the outsized performance in both Investment Banking and in trading.
Question: Jason Goldberg - Barclays Services Corp - Analyst
: And then just to --
Douglas Petno - JPMorgan Chase & Co - Co-Chief Executive Officer - Commercial & Investment Bank
But we're watching every nickel and dime.
Question: Jason Goldberg - Barclays Services Corp - Analyst
: And then maybe shifting gears to -- on the Payment side, I guess, JPMorgan services clients, all different shapes and sizes and
industries across the world, a lot of different solutions. Just maybe talk to you -- we can probably spend the whole session on this --
but just kind of recent initiatives where you kind of see the biggest opportunities there.
Douglas Petno - JPMorgan Chase & Co - Co-Chief Executive Officer - Commercial & Investment Bank
So I would bring -- if you're very interested in the details on this, I'd bring you back to our Investor Day presentation. The gentlemen
that run that business, Max and Umar, did a good job of outlining it. We've got organic growth potential across our Payments
franchise, almost every client segment, every market, every geography.
The big drivers, if I had to sum it up just in a few minutes, we're expanding our footprint strategically. So with that, we can better
serve clients in regions. If you expand and at least, expand in Europe and Asia, you become truly their Asia bank, the Middle East
bank, their European bank. It also brings new customers as you extend your footprint into those new geographies. That will be a big
growth driver for us long term.
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SEPTEMBER 09, 2025 / 2:30PM, JPM.N - JPMorgan Chase & Co at Barclays Global Financial Services Conference
With the investments we're making in our platform and capabilities on digital, it's exposing us to very significant fee pools and
deposit-gathering businesses, both the middle market and innovation economy. And digital, having a best-in-class, end-to-end
digital experience, is a big investment priority for us in Payments.
I think sort of moving along the innovation spectrum in the merchant services business that we have, we have an omnichannel
embedded finance -- embedded Payments capability that serves platform businesses. This is very unique, but it could be a big
revenue driver for us over time.
And sort of the last point, I would say, is sort of more Horizon 2, Horizon 3, or Kinexys or distributed ledger blockchain business.
We're right in the middle of wherever that market may go. We've been spending a lot of time just so we're thinking about product
opportunities and solutions. We're staying close to our clients on that.
Question: Jason Goldberg - Barclays Services Corp - Analyst
: I guess, one area we hear a lot about recently is just stable coins. Some use cases sound better than others, but cross-border and
non-US transactions kind of come up a bit. I'd just kind of love to get your thoughts on that and just kind of better understand how
JPMorgan is approaching it.
Douglas Petno - JPMorgan Chase & Co - Co-Chief Executive Officer - Commercial & Investment Bank
Time will tell whether there's going to be large, scalable, profitable wholesale solutions that emerge. But over five years ago, we saw
the utility, the advantage, to financial services of being smart on distributed ledger and blockchain technologies. We formed a center
of excellence.
We have a very qualified team that's been in place for a long time innovating, both for blockchain solutions in terms of how we run
the bank, but also in terms of product and capabilities. With the enactment of the GENIUS Act, hopefully, it will bring a range of
regulatory certainty and an operating framework such that maybe some of these products will give oxygen to some of these
Question: Jason Goldberg - Barclays Services Corp - Analyst
: Got it. And then maybe just kind of rounding out the business, the Securities Services. I think it kind of get sometimes overlooked.
I think people are surprised when they realize JPMorgan is actually the third largest player in this business. Maybe just kind of talk
to what you're seeing (multiple speakers) --
Douglas Petno - JPMorgan Chase & Co - Co-Chief Executive Officer - Commercial & Investment Bank
Yeah, don't overlook the Securities Services business. It is kind of tucked within the CIB, but it's an incredible franchise on its own. It
does completely benefit by being a part of an investment bank and part of a trading operation. Most of our top clients are also
Investment Banking clients and Markets clients. And so the actual -- the utility of having those broad-based relationships is a huge
strategic advantage for them.
The business is performing extremely well. We had record revenues for each of the last five years. 2024 was a record revenue year
for us. Second quarter was a record revenue year for us. And we have industry-leading margins. You mentioned we're in the top
three, but we have industry-leading margins at 32%.
And I think beyond the actual number, that's 32% while we're making significant investments in bringing new customers on and in
our platform and our capabilities. So it's a fantastic franchise. It brings a lot of stability. It brings -- it's a deposit-gathering business
for us, and it's a predictable revenue stream. It's nice to have sort of tucked within the CIB, and it's certainly accretive to our growth
rates.
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SEPTEMBER 09, 2025 / 2:30PM, JPM.N - JPMorgan Chase & Co at Barclays Global Financial Services Conference
Question: Jason Goldberg - Barclays Services Corp - Analyst
: Interesting. You mentioned deposits earlier. And CIB, I think, is $1.2 trillion in deposits, so obviously, a big contributor. Balance is up
like 12% year over year. Maybe just talk to kind of what's driving that growth and --
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SEPTEMBER 09, 2025 / 2:30PM, JPM.N - JPMorgan Chase & Co at Barclays Global Financial Services Conference
Douglas Petno - JPMorgan Chase & Co - Co-Chief Executive Officer - Commercial & Investment Bank
Yeah. Our strategy in Payments is to be a primary operating bank to our clients, help them make payroll, manage their payables,
collect receivables, manage liquidity. If you do that, if you are truly their primary operating bank, you will get core stable operating
deposits; that's the prize. And so we're investing in our products and solutions to drive that outcome.
And we invest organically to expand our business to acquire clients as their primary operating bank. That's been a big deposit driver
for us. You've seen that in innovation economy. You've seen that in middle market. We've seen that in across our multinational
franchise, where the investments we've made in our global pooling liquidity solutions has really been incredibly competitive and
successful.
And then as I touched on earlier, our Securities Services business is -- it's actually a really positive contributor to our deposit portfolio.
So a combination of all those forces has really been -- it's been a -- gives us a good foundation for future deposit growth.
And I'd just -- the one sort of thing that always gets lost in the story is the power of having an asset management business attached
to JPMorgan. We have hundreds of billions of dollars of yield-seeking liquidity that leaves our clients to get swept to money market
accounts in our AWM business.
None of that is captured in the P&L of the CIB, but it's certainly captured in the P&L of JPMorgan Chase. And that's complete extension
of our treasury platform as clients -- many of our clients have different liquidity requirements to a point.
Question: Jason Goldberg - Barclays Services Corp - Analyst
: Fair. Private credit's another area that's gotten a lot of attention. I guess, JPMorgan kind of touches that term in many different ways.
But just kind of love to get your thoughts on the state of play. We've seen a lot of growth in that segment. Kind of your thoughts
there, and just what role is JPMorgan playing?
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SEPTEMBER 09, 2025 / 2:30PM, JPM.N - JPMorgan Chase & Co at Barclays Global Financial Services Conference
Douglas Petno - JPMorgan Chase & Co - Co-Chief Executive Officer - Commercial & Investment Bank
It's a tremendous market. It's grown dramatically in the last several years. It's now multiple-trillion-dollar market. It's over half the
C&I lending market. So it's here to stay and something that we watch very carefully. You all as investors and students and banks
should sort of appreciate as well as anybody that banks that had grown loans at over 20% in an extended period of time tend not
to do well.
So there will certainly be winners and losers in this asset class over time. There are some outstanding players, and then there's some
secondary and tertiary players. And so we're not so worried about the outstanding players.
Many of them, most of them, are clients of ours. The secondary and tertiary players, it's -- they've not been through a hard recession.
I wouldn't consider the pandemic a hard recession. So we'll see what happens if we see two, three quarters of real tough economic
climate.
We touched the segment in several ways. We're the bank to the GPs. We take them public. We sell these businesses. They're Investment
Banking clients. They're Markets clients, and we finance their portfolios on a very strategic basis and conservative advance rates.
And then the second part of the business is we have the product offering with the exception -- in the Investment Bank and in our
Markets business, we're not an asset gatherer. It's a solution set we're bringing to solve problems or help our clients. The teams aren't
motivated by, hey, let's go grow a bunch of direct loans.
And so we were public at our high-yield conference early in the year. We announced [$50 million] of capital availability to be in the
direct lending business. It was meant for nothing other than to signify that we have the balance sheet, we have the scale, we have
the capacity, and we're open for business. But there's no way a target that we -- hey, we've got -- we expect to or are working hard
to fund [$50 million] of direct loans.
I will also say that we're running all these credits through our pre-existing credit rails, the same underwriting expertise that's been
in place for generations at JPMorgan; and look at all of our middle-market loans, all of our buyout loans, and have delivered extremely
strong credit performance for us for decades.
So we're running it through the same rails. We're maintaining the same credit discipline. All it is for us is just a way to be much more
holistic and comprehensive, and product agnostic in delivering a solution. So we're in the game, but it isn't the one and only thing
we're doing.
Question: Jason Goldberg - Barclays Services Corp - Analyst
: No, makes sense. I guess, in that vein, if we kind of look at this new CIB, it's kind of been around six quarters. ROE's kind of been
running 17% to 20% despite Investment Banking fees, maybe not being where they could be, and allocated capital increasing. You
talked to kind of 16%.
I guess, two questions. I guess, kind of given the increased diversity of the business, just how do you think about the variability
returns? And then secondly, is something greater than 16% conceivable just given your market share opportunities, global scale,
positioning, and the like?
Douglas Petno - JPMorgan Chase & Co - Co-Chief Executive Officer - Commercial & Investment Bank
So I'll take the last part first. So the 16% -- so everybody is sort of on the same page -- was a medium-term outlook that we gave at
Investor Day. It's just simply that. It was an outlook. It was not an aspirational target in any way.
And as we sat on stage at Investor Day, we didn't know where the regulatory framework was going to go. The economy was wobbly.
So at that point in the market, it's very reasonable to consider that we're over-earning on credit, over-earning on deposits. And the
Investment Banking landscape as we telegraphed at that point was very uncertain.
So 16% was not an aspirational target, medium-term outlook, given the facts and circumstances we felt at the time. The other notable
point is 16% is pretty good and best in class by any standard, and a lot of different subcomponents of the businesses we're in.
And on top of that, the 16% outlook for us includes a tremendous amount of investment in our future, platform capabilities, technology,
organic growth, bankers, systems, AI, our whole stable coins initiative. So all of that's in there, and we're still delivering strong returns
and margins.
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SEPTEMBER 09, 2025 / 2:30PM, JPM.N - JPMorgan Chase & Co at Barclays Global Financial Services Conference
So I don't want to be defensive around the 16%. It's just meant to be a conservative guidepost for all of you. Is it possible that we
can outperform it? We've shown that we can. And I think depending on where the economy goes, what happens with the regulations,
there's a real chance that we could do that.
In terms of variability around the margins and the returns of the business, having run the commercial bank for 12-plus years, that
was a high ROE, much more stable revenue stream, margin business in CIB. So just by putting that together with CIB, I think you get
-- it's accretive to sort of margin stability and return stability.
I think another notable point -- we touched on it earlier -- is the increasing percentage of financing revenues as a part of our Markets
business. It's a much more stable returns and margins in that. So I don't -- it's very hard to mention and quantify.
But I think as the business mix has shifted pro forma for the combination, this new commercial and investment bank, you should
expect some degree of increase in stability of margins and earnings and returns. At least, we're hopeful that's the case.
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